Jay Kilgore Model Photography Blog Fashion and Glamour photography blog

Great learning experience for you new photogs:

I used to run a meet up group. I decided to shut it down since most people on there, were looking more for shoot out type stuff and nothing that really involved LEARNING. They just wanted to shoot. There's nothing wrong with that, but not something I'm totally into. If I'm going to take take to put something together, it's going to be a learning experience.

Since shutting it down, I contacted another business contact on there, to let him know that I'm open and free to help him out. My name attached to his groups would be GREAT for him and I'd still be able to give back to the meet up community. He has a shoot out for this Sunday, my workshop is Saturday, so I have nothing going on really. I contacted him and told him I'd go out and get some great images for him, but that it wasn't worth my paying for. Not to say I'm this great photographer, but I've got far more national publications than anyone in the state when it comes to model photography, so I'm doing something right.  He replied back:

"I'd love to have you.

I'm sure we could work something out.

1. I will offer you FREE entrance if you provide me (3) additional paying photographers.

OR

2. FREE entrance - with the understanding that you are my exclusive shooter. I would require all rights to the images but allow you to also use them for your own promotional purposes along with signing a non-compete disclosure agreement in regards to the models, stylists and venue contacts.

Let me know what you think.

xxxx"

Let's break this down peice by peice. This is a GREAT teaching experience for all you photographers out there as well as other industry business people:

"I'd love to have you.

I'm sure we could work something out."

Great intro, love that he's open to the idea and realizes the value of having someone like me at his event. Love his open mind and the fact that we have open doors to work together. I'm feeling at this point, this is something we can do!

"1. I will offer you FREE entrance if you provide me (3) additional paying photographers."

I provide HIM 3 photographers? Why would I provide HIM three photographers when he could market having ME at HIS group? Does he want ME to find him 3 guys cause he knows my workshops are usually booked out? No, he wants to fill seats in his shoot out. Instead of doing the leg work on his own, he wants me to do it and as an end result, he's losing out on a great opportunity. I will go into the email format I would have liked to have seen...a bit later.

"OR

2. FREE entrance - with the understanding that you are my exclusive shooter. I would require all rights to the images but allow you to also use them for your own promotional purposes along with signing a non-compete disclosure agreement in regards to the models, stylists and venue contacts.

Let me know what you think.

xxxx"

"FREE" entrance that I give him my livelyhood? That I sign over copyright of my photos to him? he not pay me a dime, just gives me the chance to shoot girls in Bikini's and I get nothing in return? ON TOP of signing a non-compete clause? saying I can't work with the models or stylists and the area he's shooting in? Are you serious? This has got to be one of the most unprofessional emaisl I've gotten. I don't think he means any harm or doing it maliciously, I think he's not thinking long term. Why would someone like me, agree to never shoot with a model? or MUA? or Stylist? I know he knows I'll find the girls and will work with them if I desire, but really? Sign over my lively hood to shoot T&A? That just won't work.

A bit above, I said I'd show the email that I would have liked to have seen, so here it goes:

"Jay,

I'd LOVE to have you out on a condition:

Being that you teach workshops, you can come FREE to my workshop, if you agree to not only shoot, but provide assistance to those who need it or request it. I have no problems with you being there and shooting, this gives us a chance to meet face to face as well as shoot next to each other and see if workign long term is something we're both interested in, but I can't let you in for free for the heck of it.

Also, that you provide the models AND me some images. This way, we all get something we want out of it. And finally, that I get to tell people that you'll be there to teach/assist them when they need. Having you out will add value to my shootout since we'll move it from just people shooting in auto, to people getting professional photos.

Let me know,

XXXX"

To me, that's something that should have been sent. He could have gotten FAR more than 3 people signed up since his shootouts are half the amount of my EduShoots!! His people could get the a nice sample of what they don't get at his shootouts now, instruction! He could have exploited my name and gotten money for it, when i was asking for nothing. I have nothing going on on Sunday, so I thought I'd offer to help him out.

This is a great learning experience for everyone. Photographers especially.

The biggest problem with photography today is outside of photographers, no one respects what a photographer does. They think giving over ownership of a photo as nothing major. I'm not sure what made him think I could agree to any of his terms? but I can't. It's just not worth it to me as a professional photographer. Photographers need to realize that this mentality is not acceptable (nor is giving out full res, RAW images on a cd) and it's a pratice that needs to stop NOW! Protect your livelyhood! protect your asset and skill.

Thanks!